Holding Yourself Accountable in BD

Abby Fuqua: And I'm not somebody that doesn't like to get deals done. Like if I'm putting a goose egg on the board, I'm basically firing myself because that is not acceptable. I have to take a hard look at the mirror and be like, OK, I don't like my results. I don't like the outcome of last week or last month.

How could I have shifted my behavior? And then how can I do it better next time?

Neil Barrow: Welcome to the I Hope This Email Finds You Well, A business development podcast for professional service firms. I'm your host, Neil Barrow. I'm the founder of EnabledBD, a business development consulting firm and UndergroundBD, a community for business development professionals and professional services. I'm joined today by the one and only Abby Fuqua.

Abby started her career as a federal sector IT consultant, but after spending 12 hours a day behind a computer, realized that she was in the wrong role. And after consulting, she started her sales career by joining a three PL., which is that's logistics. Correct. Third party logistics coordinator.

Abby Fuqua: Third party logistics coordinator where she cold called door to door Los Angeles business parks selling shipping. Then she moved back home to Dallas with that company, and after thinking she wanted to leave sales and get back into consulting, A recruiter recommended that Abby check out Venturity to, which is a. Outsourced accounting and CFO advisory firm.

Neil Barrow: Outsourced accounting and CFO advisory firm here in DFW to join the business development team and the rest is history. So in the 10 plus years she's been at Venturity, Abby's role has evolved from individual contributor to management team member over sales and marketing and now back into an individual contributor role, which I'm really excited to explore that art with you. So thank you for joining Abby.

Abby Fuqua: Thank you for having me, Neil.

Neil Barrow: No, this is fun. OK, I'm so excited. So OK, we're moving into the combo Meal three for five 3 of Abby's Thoughts on BD in 5 minutes. And your first menu item is your front and center philosophy.

Leave people better than I found them. Make it worth their time to spend time with you. Give like go giver. OK, so tell me a little bit about what you mean by that.

Abby Fuqua: Yeah, well, obviously I started my career selling shipping. And so when I moved into finance and accounting, I knew nothing about it. And there were some really generous people who I was shocked were willing to spend an hour sitting across the table for me having coffee and lunch. And whether I was buying or not, they were willing to spend that time with me.

And I thought, how could I possibly make it worth their time? It's so generous of them. And then they would make intros and I just thought, how can I make it worth their time and thank them for the time that they're spending with me?

Neil Barrow: Yeah. And I think, I think that's something that you know, I find with business development, especially as you're starting out in business development is we don't want to be a walking waste of time.

Abby Fuqua: Which it's my biggest fear.

Neil Barrow: That's a fear and that fear drives us to find ways to be a valuable partner, right relationship for the people that we meet. So, you know, you do a great job at that and so I'm really excited to hear about how you've done about that. But the second menu item is your goal to be the anti salesperson. So long term trust over short term wins.

Make sure that your firm is the best possible fit and when in doubt, refer it out.

Abby Fuqua: Absolutely I. Love that.

Neil Barrow: So tell me a little bit about that concept for you.

Abby Fuqua: Yeah. Well, one of the things I love about Venturity is that I know that whatever I'm selling, our team is going to work their butts off to get it right. And we are relentless in our pursuit of solving problems for our clients. So I feel so good that when a client signs an agreement with us that they're going to have the best team on it.

If I have any hesitation that it's out-of-the-box or we don't have the right capacity for it, I've got a lot of other great partners that I trust who we may compete on paper, but I know that they're going to be able to take care of the client. I would rather the client be taken care of then try and force a square peg round hole.

Neil Barrow: Yeah. And I think that comes down to some fundamental business development things that are really learned over time, which is we go from saying yes to everything because we are in business development. So we have to bring in clients to being more discerning and really diving into making sure that we're bringing on the right types of clients with the right time, the problems because those if we can ask better questions to understand all of those things, then we can be the trusted advisor to make those recommendations.

Abby Fuqua: Absolutely. And over the years I've had to improve my maturity and not just being so excited because I am very excitable as a person. I get happy ears as we call it. And I want to say that we can solve everybody's problems, but to slow it down and really think how can I get to know on this or get to a really firm yes.

And that's when you know you're doing right by Venturity by our clients and by our partners.

Neil Barrow: And I definitely want as we continue our conversation to talk about like what is good discovery first calls look like for you, which will be, I think pretty insightful for folks. OK, the last, the last menu item is your mantra. You never know. So when walking into a meeting event called, be open minded.

It's what makes this world magical. You never know who you'll meet, what you'll learn and what opportunities will present themselves when the going gets tough. Behavior drives attitude. Yeah.

So tell me more about that.

Abby Fuqua: I kind of put like 8 different things in there that wasn't very efficient probably. I love that in business development, you never know what the next cup of coffee is going to hold. You'll learn something about a business you didn't know existed about an industry or like, I've never heard of that before. You'll meet somebody that could turn out to be a lifelong friend, right?

And that can be very motivating when you back-to-back meetings and it can be exhausting. But knowing that every conversation is a fresh opportunity to give and to learn and build those relationships is it's just so fun. It really is.

Neil Barrow: And I think you're driving at ultimately, like we hear a lot of whether it's training or people giving advice about being curious, right? And that's hard to cultivate naturally because I think a lot one of us want to jump into advice or solutions or things and coming in with a reset around. Like imagine you're going from a client meeting where you're having to work with and consult with people to then moving into a prospective client meeting, which those are two different things and your mindset needs to change as you're going through that. So being open minded and seeing where these opportunities are and being abundance, like, hey, this is looking at every meeting or every potential connection as an opportunity.

Absolutely.

Neil Barrow: Yeah, I love that. OK, so that's our combo meal and I'm excited to weave some of that into our conversation. But let's back up and tell me, you know, how did like how did getting starting in the consulting space and then the actual door to door like you carried a bag you sold like cold calling, cold drop-ins. How did that kind of frame like, what was that experience like?

And then how did that frame your move into professional services?

Abby Fuqua: Yeah, so getting a door slammed in your face and getting the cops called on you because you're cold calling, we'll put some real hair on your chest and you can you can do anything after that. Like that is the hardest part of your day. Everything after that is just gravy. So building a sense of resilience and learning how to take and embrace no was one of the most formative experiences I could have had.

And I will forever be thankful to the CEO of the last company I was with for some really amazing sales training that gave me the confidence to walk into any office and say I'm here to speak to the business owner. Who would that be? And then actually get a meeting with the business owner. And so bringing that into professional services, it's a much softer touch.

You know, I'm not storming in on people and trying to, you know, interrupt their meetings and force them to speak to me. But it that sense of resilience I carry with me today.

Neil Barrow: Yeah, I think whenever I started my career in sales, because I started and I was cold calling, cold drop-ins, the same kind of stuff, quota pressure, like the whole bit and great sales training associated with that. But I was also naive. I didn't know. I thought that this was just the way that you did.

Abby Fuqua: That they hire us, yeah.

Neil Barrow: Exactly. They just like, this is how you do things, so just go do these things. And so I think building that muscle of resilience and not being afraid to go up and talk to people like that's a muscle that has to be built and it doesn't necessarily come naturally to people. I think people have maybe a personality lean that, you know, might lean into that, but ultimately it's a skill and a muscle that's built.

OK, so you developed that muscle in sales, right? And then tell me about your thought process of moving into like business development for a professional service firm. Like what did you think that was and like how was that presented to you like initially?

Abby Fuqua: Yeah, I had no idea when I first started. I remember I was interviewing with Deanna and she was asking me about the types of companies I was trying to sell and close.

Neil Barrow: The CEO, Deanna.

Abby Fuqua: Walker and she was asking me what size revenue are these companies. I was like, I don't know I've never had to think about a company in terms of the size of their revenue. I just know how many ocean freight shipments that they're importing. And so I had to completely reframe and my thought process of how I consider companies and learn what is the professionalized way to look at a business and talk to an executive.

It's not just about getting them to sign a contract with us and send their shipments with us, but ask about their business and understand what their pain points are to formulate a true solution. And that's really more of what I do today in my business development role. I'm, I'm out there networking and trying to build relationships for sure. But a lot of my time is spent scoping out the client relationships and going through that discovery process and then staying involved with our operations team to make sure that we're upholding our promises.

Neil Barrow: Yeah. And well, I think you just described very succinct the BD role, right. And that's and that's what you've learned it to be now, but like when you were first starting out.

Abby Fuqua: Yeah, I'm getting a bit of myself living in my day-to-day now.

Neil Barrow: This is great, but like what did that look like for you early on because you probably didn't have a network. Yes, so and we know that this is relationship based like most of our business and professional services comes from referrals, word of mouth, happy clients, all the stuff. So how did you maybe get started? Did they have a plan and a framework or were you creating that on the fly for you?

Like tell me a little bit about that.

Abby Fuqua: Sure. So when I got started, Deanna, who she's been my manager from day one, she was the business development person, she was the OG BD person at Venturity and now she's the CEO. She knew that generally, you know, if you had about 15 networking meetings a week, that would turn into about a deal a month. And she had a, she really through trial and error, learned what types of referral partners were, were helpful for our business.

So I was able, she introduced me to some of her key partners like Tony Banks and like Deb Pervis and like Melinda Fricke and you know, some folks that she had built really solid relationships with and those people were kind enough to help me and make intros for me so I could start building mine.

Neil Barrow: And so this is I think a really key element like when we think about hiring a business developer is like most of the time firms will hire their first BD person and not really have necessarily a lot of frames of reference about how to get started. And so that 15 meetings a week to translate to one deal a month, like that's huge because that provides like some expectations around what we should be doing and where you should be spending your time. And then she went the step further, which is with whom? Like who do I need to be spending my time with?

And so you weren't necessarily starting out like a lot of beady people, which is like, hey, I'm just going to blanket go to a bunch of stuff and meet a bunch of people and like figure it out. Like you were kind of starting with maybe the frame of reference to kind of start building traction early.

Abby Fuqua: Absolutely. I was really fortunate that way and that Dana had already at that point put in over a decade of she threw all the spaghetti at the wall to see what would stick and had to kiss all the frogs. And I was able to come in and really ride her coattails to build on what we knew already worked. And then we did take it a step further in formalizing what we call a cookbook and creating statistics.

And our goal changed. We wanted more than one deal a month. So how could we hone our sales process and techniques? But anyway, but there was a really strong starting point.

I was very fortunate.

Neil Barrow: Yeah. So how did that, how did that look like call it your first couple years, right. So were you like 15 meetings a week? Was that kind of your?

Probably 20.

Neil Barrow: Yeah, to at least 15. 15 to 20 is that's maybe a common thread that's coming up with high performing BD folks is like, and I think a lot of BD people that are starting out don't understand that it's at that level.

Abby Fuqua: Oh yeah. Like it's at that level.

Neil Barrow: That's a lot of meetings.

Abby Fuqua: It could be more.

Neil Barrow: And it could be more.

Abby Fuqua: It could be more and at that point I didn't have children, so I was doing the early morning breakfast and you know, with a, it would not be unreasonable to have a 730 a nine, a 10/30 at lunch, A130A3A5 in an event after that.

Neil Barrow: So how did you get those meetings?

Abby Fuqua: It started with the relationships that we had being generous enough to introduce me to the types of partners that I was seeking out.

Neil Barrow: And that probably that was like the initial push wave into building your network, but then eventually that stalls out a little bit where you've got to meet more. Well, tell me, well, you've got to meet more people. So how do you keep that momentum going so you can hit those kind of ideal metrics of meetings of a week?

Abby Fuqua: The relationships that we have are also continuing to go out and meet new people. So you know, in the beginning and for the first couple years it definitely was going to big events and then the goal would be come out of that with three to five, one-on-one set up. So that's how you would go and fish in the pond to find more relationships. But then after that, it's OK.

I last quarter really hit it off with these five people. Let's get back together with them, see who they've met that have been really helpful for their business. And let's across Pollinate. And I remember very early on, I met a couple people, Joe Lavis and Kyle Turbet.

And we just, we really hit it off and had some great synergies. I hate that word, but we did, I'm in overlap with the businesses that we were working in and we ended up setting up a happy hour and had it grew over time, but at one point I think we had, I don't know, 75 people or something. And at the end of the night, we would all throw our credit cards in there and split it up, you know, But that was a way to bring people together and continue building, but in a meaningful, purposeful.

Neil Barrow: Yeah. And I think you're highlighting kind of the evolution of what good BD looks like is now that you've, now that you've built kind of your people in your orbit, it's like creating the space to bring them all together. Exactly.

Neil Barrow: And then when you can do that with great partners that you have and people that you like that serve similar clients and those that are willing to make introductions, those 3 qualifiers, as I see it, for a good referral relationship. Exactly. Then you can create those shared spaces, which really kind of exponentially increases like the amount of relationships that you can start cultivating. And so you start to cross pollinate like as you described it.

OK. So tell me a little bit about how did you, how was your performance in those first like you know, couple of years in your role, like what did that look like?

Abby Fuqua: Yeah, so as I was preparing for this podcast, I was thinking back to the very beginning. And I'm not somebody that doesn't like to get deals done. Like if I'm putting a goose egg on the board, I'm basically firing myself because that is not acceptable. So early on, as I was trying to build up a network, I would go to Craigslist and try and find companies that were looking to hire a bookkeeper, an accountant.

And I think it was my second week at Venturity. I and I thought, I mean, I was, I was coming out of a role where I was smiling and dialing. So I was, I was in that those muscles were already strong. But I had reached out to a bunch of companies on Craigslist and one of them responded and I think I ended up closing that by my third or fourth week at Venturity, something like that very early on, I think.

Anyway, it was very exciting. So I remember that deal was so it was teeny tiny in these days. It wouldn't be a fit for us, but it was so much fun getting that done. But I had to go out and create that destiny rather than waiting for it.

Neil Barrow: Yes, I think, I think a business development gets a little bit of a bad rap for being on the golf course or being at the happy hours and being the glad timing people right work. It's work. It's fun when done right, it's work. And how you framed it is like if I've got zeros on the board, like this is unacceptable.

And so I think you know how you thought about it. Your muscles have been strong around the cold calling, cold development of prospective clients in a real focused way where you're fine like people that already have a need, like how do you find those people? And then you're trying to get wins as fast as you can on the board. Like that's what's going to drive actual results.

It's not necessarily we need a BD person to go out in the market and explore a brand like expand our brand. Right, exactly.

Neil Barrow: It's like how do we drive results? We just got to get after it for sure. OK. So you're kind of evolving in your career.

Tell me about some of the like main lessons learned, like how did you, how did you go about adding value? Because you talked about that early on as like give, give. And So what were some of the things that you found that were the most useful on, like the giving aspect to your network?

Abby Fuqua: You know, nothing unique. I've listened to the other podcasts and I think some of my you know, counterparts, whether it's Erica or Tony or you know, insert name here. I mean so and Danielle, so many of them have been unbelievable chat. I mean, I could look should go on and on.

Sure. They are all so good at making connections. And I did the same thing where if I hear that one person is interested in meeting manufacturing companies between 20 and 50 million in revenue and then I meet someone over here that's doing the exact same thing. The light bulb goes off and you make the connection.

And the key is to do it quickly and in a meaningful way, to set them up in a way to do business with each other.

Neil Barrow: Yeah. And so how did you keep organized because like once we get to the certain point of like now we're, we're building and building and building and growing relationships, but now we've got to deepen and maintain those relationships. And just like our clients or just like other referral sources, like we have to keep our people top of mind, which is challenging, right? Because sometimes what's default to who did I meet in the last couple months, not necessarily who is my, who's in my network that could.

So how did you like do that?

Abby Fuqua: I like cringing because I am the least organized person ever. And to this day, well, very generously about, gosh, maybe five years ago at this point, Deanna and Chris are CEO at the time, approached me and offered very generously to get me an admin because I'm terrible at using a CRM. I'm not great at keeping track of. I keep it all on track.

I keep track of it up here, which has gotten worse with every child but.

Neil Barrow: I'm the same way, yeah.

Abby Fuqua: So in the very beginning, I was more organized because I was starting from zero and I had a big Rolodex, literally a physical Rolodex on my desk and I would collect cards and I was diligent. Then I moved to the post IT system, Then I moved to an Excel dock, then I moved to back to post it's and now I really have a Top 40 list of my top partners. And it does grow because I do meet amazing new people that I may not have a long history with, but we have great chemistry. We have great referral partner partnership habits.

So that list of all of us, but I keep that Top 40 list in front of me, but it's very manual and don't do what I do.

Neil Barrow: No, no, you've got to start somewhere. And I, you know, I talked about like, hey, you have to tracking anything is a manual process. Like you have to put something in somewhere, right, to keep organized. And so whatever tools that we have to do that.

And I've got kind of a manual email routine. It's through my inbox, right? Which is how I maintain everything and kind of try to stay organized.

Abby Fuqua: Right, so my admin does, I mean, she will go and put things into Salesforce. So she, we have a process now where she'll go look at the meetings I had for that week. She'll pull the email addresses, she'll follow up with me and say, oh, I saw you met with that person again, or I saw this is a new contact for you. She'll go to my LinkedIn and add them.

She'll invite them to follow us on Venturity's LinkedIn page. So a lot of that is behind the scenes with her. Thank God for her, but I that a lot of that was her and her team because she's with a executive admin outsource company all for outsourcing clearly over here. So she came to us with recommended processes, which was awesome.

And then we've developed them over the years. It's really cool. Highly recommend.

Abby Fuqua: You all, yes, I think we need help like that's what you're talking about is like how have we added enablement to help you be more successful, right or a firm be more successful around some of these conversations and relationships and maintenance around that.

Neil Barrow: And so now you've built the referral network, you're starting to see some success high motor like you're reaching out cold like what does a good like when a prospect you're meeting with a prospective client, what did that look like early on? And then how has that evolved for you and Venturity over the last 10 years?

Abby Fuqua: Well, early on, I would say that's a really good question. Let me find out for you. Or I would, you know, I would take some notes and I would pretty much parrot everything that I heard Deanna ask or say. And I would and run meetings side by side with some of the OPS folks and, you know, some of our accountants and finance people in our office.

But now I've been in for years now, probably about three years. And I did become independent. And the conversations now go much deeper. I understand.

I shouldn't say I understand. I know enough to be dangerous to have some of the technical conversations and at least raise a red flag or ask a deeper question. So it's it's definitely gone deeper.

Neil Barrow: Yeah. Well, tell me, tell me a little bit about like what types of questions you have. Some go to questions because I know that as we develop over time, like when I go into a perspective client meeting, I kind of already know what they're going to say and what they're going to ask. And so like you kind of already have that rhythm of what that conversation looks like.

So do you have any kind of go TOS about how you structure that meeting or the questions you like asking or things that work for you?

Abby Fuqua: Yeah, And a lot of what we use is Sandler based. So that's what I think where you and I met way back in the day originally. But we always start if we if someone, if a referral partner raises their hand and says I have a client who needs Venturity, the first step is let's hop on a 10 to 15 minute introductory call. I don't even know if it makes sense to meet yet.

You could be asking for apples and we have bananas. So let's have this initial call and we'll see if it makes sense to keep talking. So on that call asking the basics, revenue, what accounting system are you on? What are the who's currently doing it and why?

What brings you here today? Why are we talking? But then it goes deeper from there. You know, how long has that been a problem?

What have you done to try and fix it? And then we have a scoping meeting if it does make sense to keep talking.

Neil Barrow: And see, I think that's, you know, some of the things that I like to bring to light right around good discovery calls. Like initially you're having a qualification call and then you probably have a discovery call. Right. And so that discovery call is really centered around some of those things that you're asking, which we typically don't ask at least initially for firms before they kind of build that good discovery muscle.

It's like, what have you tried? Why hasn't that worked? When I was BD at an accounting firm, one of my questions was whenever they would be saying, Oh, well, we're looking for tax work, we need a better tax firm, more proactive. Like, well, have you asked your current firm to just fix it?

Right. That's a lot easier than moving over to a new firm. And so I'm trying to push a little bit to gain some sort of commitment to change because if you're not committed to change, that's OK. And I can tell you all the great things that we can do and how we can help, but ultimately I'm trying to figure out, are you trying to make a decision or are you trying to get educated on what might be better right in this moment and so.

Abby Fuqua: Absolutely. It's definitely what I love about our BD process at Venturity right now is it's very much a mutual qualification process. It's a mutual discovery. I'm trying to understand, are we a fit for them?

But I also need to understand, is this going to be a good client and not only a good client once they sign with us, are they going to be just yanking me around during the sales process? Because ain't nobody got time for that. And that if that's what they're looking for, that's just not, but us, we're not in anyway. So that's something that we've honed and gotten deeper on is ask understanding the expectations.

You know, when you went back to your current outsourced accounting firm and you told them that their reports aren't meaningful for you or that you're having to correct a lot of their mistakes. How did they handle that? You know, why have you given up? Like, why, you know?

And so how does that mean they're going to give up on us if we make a mistake because we're better than everybody else, but we still make mistakes, too.

Neil Barrow: Everybody makes mistakes. There's always going to be bumps in the road, right? And so you're trying to get that true partnership right alignment and just understanding are they going to be a good client and are we the right perfect fit for what they need ultimately? Because we know if we bring on the fringe clients, we're going to have more problems.

Abby Fuqua: Definitely. And that's the whole when in doubt, refer it out.

Neil Barrow: Yes. And I love that. And so, OK, tell me about because you do, you are known for making very kind and strategic introductions and then giving referrals out to your network and making sure like how did you address your mindset around that? Because I think we want to, if we get an opportunity as business development or even as you know, professionals at firms like these are like these are mine and it's tough to get that mindset.

Did you struggle with that initially? Did you always have that?

Abby Fuqua: No, I and I learned that from Deanna. I mean, the abundance mindset, there's plenty of deals and opportunities for everybody. All boats will rise. So obviously on a month where I haven't necessarily signed what I wanted to sign yet, I'm going to see if a deal, you know, if we can make it work and it, but ultimately that I've, I'm, I'm more mature now and I know that will only burn later.

And so let me save myself from myself and just stay true to the process. Put the pressure on the process, don't put the pressure on myself and figure out who's the right fit going to be.

Neil Barrow: Yeah, no. And I love that because I think that's a mindset that we all have to cultivate because we go from guessing and then thinking about, OK, well how can we make this work instead of saying, hey, this really isn't worth our focus or time. Yes, we could do it right, but it would be better served if we just went to our for partners. Absolutely.

OK. So you're building your building your pipeline, you're adding revenue and then you kind of get start having conversations about leadership roles, right. So tell me about how your BD team growth team is kind of evolved and then what does that step look like for you?

Abby Fuqua: Yeah, absolutely. So I learned pretty soon after being at Venturity that I just loved it there. I love Deanna, I love Chris. I loved our clients, I loved our team, I loved our culture.

And I wanted to be part of the strategy and wanted to be part of the engine that was going to help us grow. And I've always had this almost like an identity crisis of being just a salesperson, but.

Neil Barrow: As we all do.

Abby Fuqua: Right. But you can make a huge impact as a leader without being a manager. But at the time, I was really interested in stepping up into leadership and helping, growing and scaling our BD team. So Deanna had stepped into the CEO role, Chris stepped into the chairman role and it was a natural evolution for me to step in to be VP of sales and marketing and take responsibility for that function and become a player coach.

So that's that's the direction I went.

Neil Barrow: OK. So what did that look like because obviously there was some changes at the leadership level, right? And then you're moving up into this leadership role. So what was your initial like, thoughts or plan around how you were going to like?

What did that role look like for you?

Abby Fuqua: Yeah, You know, I think there was, there's definitely, I think every BD person has some ego, right? I'm like, oh, this is fine. I'll just teach everybody the way to do it, the way I do it, and then we're going to be golden. Yeah, that was not the case.

You know, people are actually different. And anyway, that was a recipe for disaster. But we made some pretty cool hires. We have a still have a gentleman on our team today who was part of that team, but I had to learn how can I coach and develop and pour into this team like Deanna and Chris have done for me.

And it's a time commitment. It's an emotional commitment. And it takes a skill set that you have to hone like any other. You have to learn how to be a manager and ask the right questions and to step in, but not to save.

And it was a very humbling experience.

Neil Barrow: Yes, I think I think a lot of firms have you know, the player coach that mean that's that's a common theme is like I'm going to be an individual contributor, but I'm also overseeing the BD team ultimately. And so were you making those like helping make those decisions around the hiring and like what the team look like? OK.

Abby Fuqua: Sitting in every interview, assessing people's skill sets, their qualifications, their experiences. That's

Neil Barrow: OK. So what? What did you look for in a?

Abby Fuqua: Truly, what a disaster, right?

Neil Barrow: Oh God. OK, so initially you were looking for yourself, right? But like, what did you learn through that experience about what? Because we got different people like different experiences, different skill sets.

There's not one true way to do BD, correct? But they all share similar frameworks. And so like when I coach firms, train firms or we're building the function at firms, I focus on the frameworks and you'd be able to take what you need as it relates to you personally, because again, I think it's a choose your own adventure, but we're providing the guardrails for you, right? Kind of like Deanna did with you early on is kind of provided some structure that allowed you to kind of go build upon that in the wrong way.

So tell me a little bit about like what you look for now and like what makes a good BD higher?

Abby Fuqua: Yes. And we're we're figuring that out. We brought put on a VP of Growth and Transformation, Paul Griffith, who has experience building growth teams and the baton has been passed to him now to oversee marketing and really our sales function. So Deanna, right now Deanna, Paul and I share responsibility in managing our BD team, which right now is me and one other gentleman.

So I have my work cut out for me managing myself. And then we have another gentleman on our team who I mentioned and Deanna spends time with him, I spend some time with him and Paul does as well. But we're, we're really in that process right now of figuring out we've got to eliminate our BD concentration issue like we, we have, we've had a great growth and we want to continue that trajectory. So, and we need to do that by adding more heads.

Neil Barrow: And so how long were you in that kind of player, coach, VP role?

Abby Fuqua: About two years.

Neil Barrow: About two years. And so was there anything that stood out to you from an initiative or project or things that you like when you took a look at strategy and leadership instead of going from at an individual contributor level? Like what were some of the things that stood out to you around the focus about how to grow a firm?

Abby Fuqua: Well, so we added new service lines, we added managed offshore services, we had added a couple years prior CFO services. We're still learning how to sell those things. So it was about, and that's where I where I really talked to Deanna and decided to step back into the individual contributor role. I need to have more focus in order to drive revenue for the firm.

It's, you know, whether they put the pressure on me or not, I put it on myself. I am a big driver to Venturity's revenue and I have a responsibility to my team. We're an ESOP, we have a bonus program, revenue drives that program. We've got to fill the funnel.

We've got to get the revenue and the right revenue. And so I moved back into that. But I loved being and loved being at the table. I still get invited sometimes for strategic conversations about where we're going, but I'm really enjoying focusing on the revenue growth side of it.

Neil Barrow: OK. So before we move into you going back into just an individual contributor role, what were some of the signs for you personally? Was it that like I don't have as much influence on direct outcomes for the firm or what was that made you that say like, hey, I'm not I'm more passionate about the driving revenue than it is maybe more of the strategy and leading teams and folks?

Abby Fuqua: Yeah, it's one KPI, one number is signed revenue. So that was going down and that's my responsibility. And I only have so many hours in the day. And I wanted to make sure I could keep that in a place where I could hold my head up high and know that I was contributing to the firm in a meaningful way.

Neil Barrow: OK. So you said focus, which is what that comes down to. And so I agree, I think the missing ingredient for a lot of growth teams, business developers, firms in general is focused deep, not wide right and being able to like drive outcomes ultimately. And so how are you?

This might be an interesting question, but like how are you balancing that? Because I'm sure you've got a family. I do.

Neil Barrow: Right, so how many kids do you have?

Abby Fuqua: I have three now, three kids. Can you believe it, Neil?

Neil Barrow: No, I cannot.

Abby Fuqua: I know. I don't think you had one whenever we met.

Neil Barrow: We didn't, and you didn't either. Yeah, I didn't either. So how is that maybe changed? Because our life, our personal life, like everybody talks about work life balance, that's not a thing, right?

It's like the integration of like how do we do all of this stuff that we need to do? And then what does our work look like within our life? And so how's that maybe change your rhythm or perspective like as you were moving from like choosing to move from like a management type role into more just going into a individual contributor driving revenue?

Abby Fuqua: That's a it's a really good question and I think about it every single day. But ultimately what it's come down to is time management. And what is it? Everybody has the same number of hours in the day as Oprah or Beyoncé.

You know, it's what you do with them or the Kardashians, right? But now my hours between 7:00 and 8:30 are dedicated to getting my kids up, getting them out to school. I will only miss dinner time once a week because that's a family rule. We have dinner together as a family every night.

But because my role once a week, I'm willing to make an exception from that. So I wake up earlier before that to knock stuff out. And at night I am on my computer and but it's fun that way. And during the day, I pick my kids up from school and it just every minute counts.

Every minute counts. I will tell my team, you know, we make, they make fun of me. My husband makes fun of me too. And even my son knows Mommy's on a call for three more minutes.

We're watching. I will stick to that in 3 minutes, right? And it's having the boundaries and just knowing that there are multiple things that are important to me and I love them both. So dividing and conquering in a way that's not going to steal from either of those.

Neil Barrow: Yeah, and I think that's hard. And it's a battle every day, right? And I think sometimes we can let it kind of drift and slip and we need to take the time to kind of pull it all back together, right. And I think I think that also helps us, you know, kind of my rhythm.

And we got to take care of ourselves. We got to take care of our family. We got to take care of our business. We got to do all these things, right.

And so, you know, it kind of similar is like, you know, I had to start waking up really early because I wasn't willing to miss time at home. Totally right. And so like, I love what?

Abby Fuqua: Time do you get up?

Neil Barrow: About 4:15, yeah.

Abby Fuqua: Same. It's a golden hour.

Neil Barrow: It is. It's like that cup of coffee tasted really good.

Abby Fuqua: It does, and it's very quiet.

Neil Barrow: Yes, it's very quiet and you know, that's the only, that's the only way that I can take care of myself, right is during that time in the early morning before everybody gets up. And so and we're always, it's going to evolve and it's going to change over time, but I think it's important to call that out is like, you know, we've all got stuff going on. And so whatever your BD role looks like, you can adjust it for you. But as long as you're focused on the outcomes, right, rather than just doing the stuff right?

And that's where people get, that's where frustration, anxiety, all the bad feelings that we were underperforming, we don't feel like we're doing enough, Like it's because we're not necessarily as focused around what we should be doing every day or every week or quarterly, whatever it is.

Abby Fuqua: And it's important not to get, I have to tell myself not to get an excuse making mode like, OK, yes, I had parent teacher conferences and my kids were sick 2 days last week. So freaking what? I still have a job to do. I can get up earlier or stay up later or not, you know, sitting next to him watching Cocomelon, and I can actually hammer stuff out.

I mean, I have to take a hard look at the mirror and be like, OK, I don't like my results. I don't like the outcome of last week or last month. How could I have shifted my behavior? And then how can I do it better next time?

And that's where I am, like, militaristic about my time management because I know I'm just be mad at myself later for wasting time.

Neil Barrow: Yeah, my sisters make fun of me.

Abby Fuqua: They're like, oh, Abby has to be so efficient. Like, she's putting on her makeup while listening to a podcast or having a call while she's driving in the car.

Neil Barrow: But you don't want to waste a minute.

Abby Fuqua: You don't. And I'm side note, I'm really happy to be out of the cocoa. Yeah. I will just say that was nice to get out of that phase.

That's our era of affection, guilty pleasures, So what they do, and far between.

Neil Barrow: No, I understand. But like ultimately, like I love that you're self assessing, but I think it's also, you know, calling out like, hey, it's OK. Like if we had bad weeks and it's OK if we have bad days, like I'm, I'm just going to call it out. It's OK.

Abby Fuqua: It is OK.

Neil Barrow: But as long as we make those changes, right, recognize it and then make the changes because it goes back to that phrase. Like choose your hard. Right, 100%.

Neil Barrow: Right. Like it's hard to wake up early, but it's also really hard.

Abby Fuqua: To not hit your number.

Neil Barrow: To not hit your number or to.

Abby Fuqua: Let down the team.

Neil Barrow: Let down the team or yourself down. Let your family down, whatever it is. And so it's, it's going back to choosing your heart. Absolutely.

Neil Barrow: OK, that ends the philosophical portion of our of our conversation. So let's get into going back into an individual contributor role. So now you're focused on, hey, let's go drive revenue, let's go get new clients, let's get the right clients. So tell me how version 2 might be different than version 1?

Abby Fuqua: Yeah, so just wiser, right. I've got some age and some reps under my belt, but the relationships are deeper and I've had the longer standing relationships. So I was, you know, thinking to myself, I got together with a with Joe Lavis the other day and me back up Deanna and I used to say that if you hit it really hard with the networking, the results would flow in about four to six weeks later. Because it's not going to be direct that you have coffee with somebody and then they have a lead for you or that you have a lead for them.

But as I've gained more tenure in this role, that timeline has shortened and it could be days to a week or two now. So I know that if I hit it really hard on the networking for a short period of time, there should be some pretty quick results. And that came to fruition with Joe and I got lunch the other day and we both walked away with a really strong opportunity for each other. And that was just super cool.

And that's, you know, it's not going to happen every time, but it's being more intentional about. Who the time is being spent with being intentional about being giving and thoughtful and being receptive when there's an opportunity.

Neil Barrow: Yeah. And going back to your point about like giving, giving like 1/2 to do that, I have to have something to give, right? Which means that I might have to cold call, I might have to cold email, I might have to go produce my own prospective clients. I or I need to have a giant network as fast as possible.

So then I can make, start making those connections. But you have to have something to give. And most people are takers, right? And unintentionally and not in a bad way, but they don't come to the table typically to try to give.

Abby Fuqua: Right, absolutely. I probably have 4:00 to 6:00 conversations with business owners or executives or private equity groups a week. So, you know, over the course of a month that's 20 to 30 people that need something, whether or not we're the right fit for it. So I really try to ask those prospects that just turn into relationships, right?

Because they're not a prospect anymore after we disqualify them. What do you need? Oh, you're in construction, You're trying to get bonded. You have a solid insurance broker that you've worked with.

Have you met so and so? Can we make the connection here? Not a client for me over there, but hey, maybe it's one for my insurance partner. So really trying to leverage those conversations, even if they're not turning into direct business, make it turn into business for somebody else.

Neil Barrow: Yeah, I think we get, I think along those lines is one of the things that I've noticed is we get really siloed around like, OK, you need a tax return, let's talk about that instead of really backing up and saying what else is going on with your business. And you know, one of the questions that I asked and BD roles and even today when I'm meeting with his prospective clients, it's like tell me about all of your other vendors and partners. Which ones do you love? I would love to meet them.

Which ones do you are you going to be evaluating? Right. And like how you ask? That like I'm happy, like I have a big network.

I would love to make a recommendation if it would be appropriate. Absolutely.

Neil Barrow: Like it's just taking that time to do that, but we feel that it might be distracting from the conversation and sometimes.

Abby Fuqua: It is. It has to be at the right time.

Neil Barrow: Well, OK, let me let me ask you this question. Do you think there is a right time to bring up referral? Asking for referrals, Asking for introductions, making recommendations? Do you think there is a right time for?

Abby Fuqua: That I do because, and I think it depends on the personality type of the person across the table, because some people are super cool with that. They can have a broader perspective or they're not going to be so bogged down in one specific initiative and they can think forest through the trees. Some people can't, you know, and so, and that's OK. It's a personality type.

I know if I throw 10 things at my husband, he's not going to handle those very well. But he worked through one at a time. Sure. Meanwhile, when he throws me one at a time, I'm like, can you please give me 5 more?

Because I've got 4 more minutes to discuss and I can handle more at once.

Neil Barrow: Yeah, OK. I think, I think you're right. I think it comes out of the personality and I'll let them self select into that often as like hey, when the time is right. Here's what I'd like to discuss with you and.

Abby Fuqua: I'm going to bring it back up in two weeks because the time may not be right, but it's just so it doesn't fall off our radar. I'm going to ask you about this because I really think you should be paying attention and that's I'd love to introduce you to Neil.

Neil Barrow: Yes, like setting the stage right, ultimately, right. OK, so you're back in this individual contributor role. Could you share with what how does Abby attack her week? Like do you have days structure for different things?

Because do you still cold call? Do you still cold email? OK, So you're about relationship like managing your existing relationships and meeting other right new relationships? Ultimately, yes.

And so how are you structuring your week today? What does that look like today versus what it might have looked like when you were getting started are?

Abby Fuqua: You asking about my calendar space like what that how I divvy it up and.

Neil Barrow: Well, how do you, how do you think about it? And like, how do you know if you had a good week?

Abby Fuqua: OK, so you know what I mean. And it changes. So there will be times when I So for example, we've had a very successful beginning of the year. So it brought on a very high volume, high net quantity of new relationships.

Where that come from? How to? Probably the shift in role and just bring it. So I came back from maternity leave last year and then hit the ground running.

And that drives activity, right? Active momentum breeds momentum, which is the most beautiful, simple thing about this role. Anyway, I was like I went that I lost my train of thought.

Neil Barrow: How do you know if you had?

Abby Fuqua: A good week, yes. So when there's a lot going on with if I have 3 new implementation meetings with new clients, I'm probably gonna have to back off the number of networking lunches or relationship that I'm having. So somewhere between 6:00 and 10:00 networking meetings right now is what I'm shooting for. Sometimes those have to get rescheduled and something else takes priority, whether it's something at my son's school or whether it's a client issue that pops up.

Neil Barrow: Yeah. Well, and that's what I really want to get to is because as we, as we start to see success in this role, then we're starting to deal more with prospective client meetings, client engagements, old clients, like, and then we're also trying to develop new relationships and grow our existing relationships and all of those things. And so just trying to get a sense of like where I know every week is different, every day is different, but like understanding like how do you maintain being successful in driving the pipeline that you're trying to drive? Like, I mean, you don't have to share the number, but I'm sure you have aggressive growth goals.

Knowing you probably have some really aggressive goals. So how do you, how do you know it's not necessarily outcome based like it is, right, But we've got to focus on inputs.

Abby Fuqua: Right. The my inputs if I have the call it 6 to 10 networking events a week, that's going to lead to four to six introductory calls, which is some referral partner making an introduction. I have a lead, excuse me, a first call with prospect and my goal right now is to bring in five new relationships a month. So if I last week was the first week all year that I did not close anything?

Neil Barrow: How did you feel?

Abby Fuqua: Awful. I was so mad. But I knew why. I knew why.

I knew what was on my calendar. I had to make some tough decisions over the span of two weeks based on some things that had come up and I wasn't ready to deal with the consequences. It was felt awful, but I knew why and this week is different and it feels really good. And I had lunch with Joe and stuff comes out of it

Neil Barrow: so. So I think you're describing a couple different things as there's a rhythm that we need to understand around how our business is made. So going back to what you initially shared, 15 meetings a week will generate one new opportunity a month or to close business.

Abby Fuqua: That was back then, but.

Neil Barrow: That was back then. Now it's different, right?

Abby Fuqua: And it's evolved. But like if I don't do something if I don't have all the meetings on the calendar that I need to have.

Neil Barrow: With the right types of.

Abby Fuqua: People with the right types of people six weeks ago, then I'm going to be like, OK in six weeks. That's why. That's why. Right.

And so you're getting.

Neil Barrow: Indicator and the lagging indicators. How do you like we ride the roller coaster that's not.

Abby Fuqua: Me.

Neil Barrow: Yes, of course — you're great. But we're never going to flat-line it right? We're going to get super busy and then we're going to have no work and no clients and then we got to go back up. So how do you how do you flatten the roller coaster like so top priority?

You know, you're going into week with a bunch of like you're not going to be able to have the prospecting or referral meetings that you want. Like what are what's top of mind for you to make sure that you do? Like where are you spending your time when you're at capacity?

Abby Fuqua: You know, LinkedIn is one of those things at first, I really admire you for your discipline and your persistence and just your content is very high quality and you stay in front of people that way. So that's a that's a muscle I really need to strengthen and our marketing team is helping with that. But if I know that I can't be out at an event because I'm dealing with other things, how can I stay in front of people? Maybe it's putting something on LinkedIn.

So those are the kind of things and I need to get better at.

Neil Barrow: Yeah. No, I agree with you. I think it's one thing whenever we get busy, we have to stay top of mind at scale because those one to one meetings we need to push off or we got stuff client work or whatever we got going on. But it's how do we stay top of mind with our network?

And that looks different for everybody. And LinkedIn is one of those tools, but it's like, how are we going to do that? And so I think you're right. I think that's a good key takeaways when we're at capacity or we have a blow up week, it's we still got to stay top of mind with our network.

And so how are we going to do that? OK, cool. So tell me about maybe one or two things that you're excited about that you're working on or have some ideas around as it relates to like strategies or tactical things that you're going to do like this year?

Abby Fuqua: Yeah, so I don't know if we were rolling or not when we started, but you're listening to your podcasts and hearing how some of my peers approach business development has been really motivating. And I feel like it's inspired me to almost get back to basics. And I was super involved in ACG, I, took a step back because I had been so involved and there were other things to explore like TMA and AM&AA. And I'm, I'm getting back to ACG.

It's just a great place. So that gets me really excited. I was at a conference yesterday and for the last probably year or so, maybe a year or two since we've had our other BD team member on board, he's been going to the conferences and the golf tournaments. And I went to one yesterday and it was so invigorating.

And I just can't wait to do more of that because now I have the lens of it's for networking, it's for BD, it's for prospect development, but it's also for knowledge gaining that I can bring back to Venturity and help us grow. And I can still be part of that leadership structure without being on the management team. So it was. It was a great day yesterday.

Neil Barrow: I love that. And I think, I think going back to what we, one of the things we talked about, which was getting back to basics sometimes is like we kind of drift a little bit and then it's like, hey, what invigorates me? Where do I where's the ROI for my time and my network? Where can I get eyeballs on me?

Like where can I spend my time that's going to generate a good return? Absolutely. Whether it's my personal brand or network or perspective client development, right? And so kind of getting back to basics, which I like.

And that's again, that's the foundation of what I talk about.

Abby Fuqua: Absolutely. And I started also, just maybe for a second thing, working with Carl Graf from Sandler. He was my original Sandler sales trainer. Then I worked with Tina, who changed my life, and now I'm back meeting with Carl consistently and have him on speed dial.

And that really excites me because every time I call him, he just has a really awesome perspective and technique to work something in the right direction. So he's a really awesome conscience and partner and tool and friend for me.

Neil Barrow: Yeah, I think we all need that sounding board and that's why I think it's important, you know, as we're going out and generating new conversations and meeting people, I think it's also important to build those BD relationships that are around you and support you and you can be a sounding board and.

Abby Fuqua: You're, Oh my God, look to you for that.

Neil Barrow: Yeah. And so it's like, how do we how do we iron sharpens iron right on that. And so I think it's a great way to end our conversation. And so again, Abby, thank you so much.

This was a this was a lot of fun. I appreciate you being on and thank you for listening and watching. And we'll see you next time on. I Hope This Email Finds You Well.