How the Queen of BD Dominates Her Market

Emily Ackerman: A lot of people are just super buttoned up and stiff, and that's just not going to get anywhere. The people that are the most successful, it takes a village. You don't need to be on your own island. If you're in a situation where it's just not good for you and you don't believe in the product anymore, leave.

Neil Barrow: Hi, welcome to I Hope This Email Finds You Well podcast with Neil Barrow. I'm here today with Emily Ackerman. Hi. She's the Director of Business Development for the Southwest West for Bennett Thrasher.

Thanks for being with me today.

Emily Ackerman: Thanks for having me. Yeah.

Neil Barrow: So let's talk about BD. Oh, my. You are commonly referred to in DFW as the Queen of BD. Everybody whenever I say, Hey, I'm in business development, the first thing is, Oh, well, I guess you know Emily, right?

And so you've made a big presence for yourself. I'd like for you to share a little bit about how you grew that, how you thought about doing that, and how that's affected maybe your business development and some of your outcomes that you've had.

Emily Ackerman: I think the uniquely different thing for me when it comes to other people in BD is I have a very turn my lemons into lemonade situation, trauma as a child. It really did stem from when I was really little, I had a bunch of learning disabilities, and I knew that I was so much better performance-wise than it showed. And so I always had this real competitive edge that I'm smarter than all these kids in this class. I must beat them.

Or even when it came to sports, I was a tennis player, not because I didn't like team sports, but Because you get the team aspect with doubles. But in tennis, if you win, that's on you. If you lose, that's on you. And I've just always been very competitive, and I've turned lemons in a lemonade situation.

I noticed that Besides you and one other BD at the time, not a lot of people were doing accounting from BD. They really weren't. And so it wasn't a competitive landscape like it is now. And I think you actually laid the groundwork and the foundation for how BD and accounting is.

We did it differently, but we both made names for ourselves in splashes in different ways. And I think I'm too competitive to a fault. I'm the type that if I'm in a car with someone, we get out of the car, I want to make sure that I get into the building before them. I'm annoying, and I know it.

It is just me. But I have noticed that in our world of accounting firm BD, People do not feel like switching accounting firms. It is not like getting a cup of coffee. It is not like academy sports.

You have to be famous. You have to be top of mind. I really cannot be everywhere at once. I know people think I am, but I make it look like I am.

And so I am loud on social media, and it looks like, well, today I am going everywhere today, but it looks like I'm everywhere. It looks like I'm meeting with people. It looks like they're giving me all these gifts. It looks like I'm invited all these cool things.

But it is a tactic to make my competitors, which are now more of them, look really lazy at their job and look like they're not doing their job. And so I have this annoyingly competitive thing that is just me. I like being number one, but this is everything. I just have noticed that when you are famous and top of mind, they will call you when their CPA retires, moves away, literally dies, screws up, the firm gets fired.

You're top of mind. Yeah. And so it is all about being not a socialite or a Dallas darling, but I have always… Popularity is not really the word I would use, but I just, even though this is just not how the world works, I like being adored by all.

I like helping everyone, and I ask for nothing in return. But I do realize that while I am only 35, I've made a lot of actual transactions happen from my introductions. I've met a lot of very powerful people just because of the work we do. And so I do a lot of just introductions, asking nothing in return, but because of just doing this and going crazy in that different season in my late 20s and early 30s and just going ham.

When other people were sleeping, I'm working. When other people are just waiting for the phone to ring, I'm out. One thing that is tough with BD, but you have to do it is I think everyone, as long as you have good management, you need a period of time to just think and realize what is out there that people are not doing that I could be doing. An example when I was at Lane Bormann Truby is everyone was talking about ESG.

I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I was so sick of it.

If people are talking about it, we're late. And so when I was at LGT, I said, You know what is out there that people are not talking about but are talking about and everyone's talking about ESG? Nfts. Everyone's talking about NFTs, but the accounting firms are not pushing collateral and stuff on it.

There is a law firm in town that has some great people that do NFT, like Bitcoin, like the crypto. Why don't we do a webinar on that? Because it's still important. Sure.

And so later more people were talking about it, but it's just…

Neil Barrow: Yeah, it's just trying to find that edge. That edge. So that edge that you're talking about is you hustled. Whenever someone's wanting to hire for business development, I say there's only one thing that you actually need to look for.

And it's high motor. You have to find somebody with a belly burn that's going to get out there and do the things that they need to do. And they feel like that if they're sitting, that I'm not doing enough. And so you've highlighted that you pursued and networked and said yes to everything.

And then you started building that. And then you started posting more on LinkedIn to make yourself appear bigger than you actually are. And enhance some of the stories that you're helping with. And then you also took that next step, which is then connecting people in your network, like finding valuable connections.

And so we all know that we can meet a bunch of people in networking, but those that will actually make a valuable introduction are very few people in our networks.

Emily Ackerman: Oh, yeah. And you have to get really creative and see things before they happen. This law firm that I mentioned that we did this NFT he webinar with a few years back, they were talking to me just when I would have lunch with them and know the other lawyers there. They were saying, We want to hire someone just like you, but we don't really know what that looks like.

We want to talk to you about that. I go, I actually have the perfect guy for you. It's just you have to see long term and realize if you're a banker that works a lot of aerospace deals and you want to get in front of private equity, I'm going to introduce you to private equity firms that focus on aerospace. I think a lot of people get stuck and think our job is really complicated, but it's really not.

It's just being a good matchmaker. I know that a lot of people in our world are very transactional, and that's just not how I play. When I'm writing these emails, even if they're very short and sweet… The other day, I realized I'm Jewish.

I was talking about two guys that both happen to be Jewish that live in Lake Highlands that have young kids that both went to UT. And just short and sweet email, you both play in the exact same sandbox. But here's a little chunk that you both already have in common that you can already go into the meeting and be like, Hey, you're Jewish? Me, too.

Hey, you live in Lake Highlands? What's your cross street? Oh, what synagogue do you go to? And it just it leads to more than, Tell me what your ideal client is.

It's…

Neil Barrow: Yes. But you're doing the hard work because you've been networked and you're taking that next to make those introductions, which I think is a critical component to being good in BD. And I think that helps your reputation, that helps people that will want to know you, that will take introductions from you, that will give you introductions because you are the connector. And so you've highlighted a couple of different paths that you've taken, integrating your own personality into your network and your focus.

It's finding those partners that you can partner with to close new opportunities based on where you're already spending your time. You've been highly networked in saying yes to going and building your network through associations and conferences and events. And you're creating these small little intimate networking groups, your dive bar group, your barbecue group, right? You've got all of these little groups that you've created to facilitate business relationships.

You're posting on LinkedIn. And the last thing on LinkedIn before I move, because I've got an interesting question for you that I think I personally want to know is, I want to hear about your best deal. What is the best client that you've ever had? But before I do that, so you can just think about it, is how did you get over your own head trash on LinkedIn?

Because I think whenever people think about posting on LinkedIn, there's some hesitation where it's like, Oh, I'm not that person. This is an ego trip. This isn't helpful. I've got my own head trash that I had to get over.

But what was maybe some of yours before you started really posting and finding your rhythm?

Emily Ackerman: I find other people's content to be very like, ick.

Neil Barrow: What do you mean?

Emily Ackerman: Linkedin is just not a place for thirst traps. It's just not. I'm the first one to talk religion, politics, sex, drugs, and rock and roll with anybody. But you got to be tasteful and delicate about it.

One example is I'm very much Jewish. I am not shy about it. I am not a quiet, scared Jew. I'm very much proud about it.

Absolutely. You have to be tasteful with what you're posting about. But I also recognize that it's a duty of mine, because if I don't speak for myself, who will? And it's very much relevant.

I think another example is, and this is just me personally, not everyone would agree with me, but I find it annoying when it's such an attention post, like I am sober for 63 days, but there are actually people that are going through real sobriety issues And this is not just because of a health and wellness thing. This is actually people have real deep rooted issues. Sure. And so I find it to be, there's a way to get your attention, but I think the image must match the text, if that's what I'm trying to say.

So I find it annoying when people just put their hot photo and say, let's talk about payroll. It has nothing to do with payroll. And so for me, again, it really does boil down to I post what I would also enjoy reading. I find our industry also overcomplicates things with really big words.

When I was in the ERP world before accounting, I hated when people would say, we streamlined your back offices systems. I would just say we put finance and accounting software on your computer and make sure it works. And so I try to make my LinkedIn posts simple for the commenter or the person that is like me that just was not super financially literate. It's actually very easy When you make it simple.

And I also like to talk about our profession, which is business development in a way that is something that I would enjoy. I am 35. I am a product of the generation that watched every episode of Sex in the City. All of it.

And all of us women or that watch, we all identify with a character. And when I learned really what business development is, that it is just like dating. It is truly the business of relationships. And while I am not single, I live every day like I am single because I'm going on first dates every day.

And so I have the mindset also of make new friends, but keep the old. This is also a thing on LinkedIn where I meet people all the time. I'm easy to please, but I'm very difficult to impress from a, I need to collect more humans and into my world. I have to meet with tons of bankers, attorneys, you name it, all the people, but not everyone is going to go on a second date.

Sure. And I have only ever had my cold referrals come from LinkedIn. I am not one that deals with inbound leads. I'm very jealous of every BD that does.

But I am hunting all on my own, and I post stuff from a LinkedIn standpoint that would also get an or someone interested or bite. There was one a couple of years ago that I put where I was talking with someone at a coffee. If you could tell your 18-year-old self three words, what would they be? And I put mine as, Hold my Bitcoin or buy foreclosed property.

But that got people talking. And I had a CFO of a major restaurant group comment being like, I'm kicking myself for selling my Bitcoin in 2016. It's like, Me too. And it just gets people to talk to you.

Neil Barrow: Yeah. And I think what you're saying is making… It's doing something that you like, that you want to see, as you're creating stuff that you wish would be out there, ultimately.

Emily Ackerman: Yes. I'm not a video person on LinkedIn. Other people are. I'm much more of a, I like pop culture.

I like the gifts. I like those funny things. But I try to make our industry more exciting and interesting, but even BD. Yes.

Neil Barrow: And so you're touching on a lot of different subjects that you find interesting. And so I think the easiest way to get started is that, is like, well, I know that I need to be better on LinkedIn. I know I need to connect more. I know I need to be in front of more people.

And this is the easiest way to do that. And so I've got to find my voice and post things that I like and not necessarily be concerned with how people might view it. It's just this is what I want to share. This is something for me, really.

Emily Ackerman: People can make fun of it all they want. Sure. It works.

Neil Barrow: Yes. It does work. And it does work. And so going back to the question, which is, what is the best deal that you've ever brought in?

Tell me a story.

Emily Ackerman: In accounting or just in general?

Neil Barrow: In business development. Where did Where did the deal come from? What did it look like? Who was involved?

How long did it take? What were about the fees? Tell me a little bit.

Emily Ackerman: I think the one that comes to mind, it's just funny how relationships carry. If you really do your job well, people don't leave you. An example is how my radio has translated to accounting. I will not say the actual company name for confidentiality reasons.

But when I was in radio, you have to grind, grind, grind. Marketing is a different pitch than finance. But when I was at CBS radio, I got really, really lucky and would I would send messages, and they happened to be right, and I would do silly things. But there was a humongous franchisor in town, humongous, who had all the brands that you would think of.

Just a gigantic beast. And what I did that was a little different is I noticed that the owner, and this I have to be careful, is not from here. And I noticed that he had family at the company, and the family was I'm very into Mexico soccer. And so I timed this and I learned that…

And you can take my drop idea and I'll know where it comes from. But I like to do one drop a year, and it's called the I'm Sorry Beers. While I usually do this around football season. I'm a Patriots fan.

I can't do this anymore. But for 20 years of my life, the Patriots won, at least every other year. I miss braided. But when I would do these I'm sorry beers, a great example would be when the Patriots just destroyed Atlanta Which was not supposed to happen.

And I would find a couple of owners or CFOs that were all in a similar corridor and drop off beers like an I'm sorry, you lost. And there was some Mexican soccer game that I dropped off some tacos and some margarita mix and some beer. And I said, I'm sorry that your team lost the big game. And it got me to talk to the daughter who was head of marketing.

And long story short, this humongous franchisor became my radio client. Now, fast forward a couple of years when I'm at Carrigs & Ingram, I noticed that one industry that our firm did really, really well was restaurant groups and franchise groups. They had a humongous bench in every industry line in that space. And in Dallas, in particular, they just happen to have a lot in hospitality.

And no joke, I think I posted something about just restaurants, and if you need an audit or something silly like that. I'm on LinkedIn one day and I get a message from the owner of this franchise group saying, Can you do our audit? I go, For you, I'll do what I can. And then I had a little bit of intel going into these meetings saying, This guy, the rich get rich because they're cheap, too.

Sure. Absolutely. And so I basically told this person, my audit partner, If you think this audit should be $50,000, make it $40. And he goes, No, that's not right.

How are we going to make money on this? I go, We will. They have so many concepts. This is going to be the gift that keeps on giving.

And this franchise group, which I had on radio, became about half a million in just audit fees. That's awesome. And so that was one where it's just, if you do your job well and you're nice to people, they will follow you. It doesn't matter the company you're with, relationships don't leave you.

Yeah.

Neil Barrow: So you highlighted an actual great example of a business development success, which is you did your research, you came up with interesting messaging and an eye opener for them with a drop. Sorry, you lost. Sorry, you lost drop. Then that led to a conversation, which then led to you consistently like, Hey, I'm still in front of them, right?

Through social media. Yes. And so then they were able to reach out when the timing was right because you were doing your work on social media to stay in in front of everybody. And then that led to this huge win for this relationship.

And so I think this is a huge highlight on a great… Thank you for sharing that story, because I think that's really helpful for people to see it's not about cold calling necessarily, even though that that could be part of your diet as BD here. But ultimately, it's how do we create disruptive… I've got to get in front of somebody and disrupt them to then start a conversation.

And then how do I build a relationship and add value over time that will lead to opportunities. And I think that's a great story. And so wrapping up for us, if you had to share a little bit about your week, how you think about structuring your focus areas, whether that's focusing really on referral sources and events and your own personal as well as external associations and conference events, internal meeting with partners and industry groups and those types of things. Tell me a little bit about how you think about structuring your week as part of an activity plan.

Emily Ackerman: So I mostly spend my week planned around the different beverages of the day, which is coffee, tea, and liquor. If most people say, Oh, I'm meeting with three or four referral partners during the week, I say, I'm meeting with five today. And so what I do to help from a time standpoint is It's a little trick, meaning I don't move the location. People come to me.

And so I'm holding court in restaurants or coffee shops for hours at a time. On Friday this week, I have an eight, a nine, a 10, an eleven at Ascension at the Crescent.

Neil Barrow: It's a stop.

Emily Ackerman: I hold court there. They come to me. And it helps me from a time-saving standpoint. I also recognize my moods during the week.

I'm in a bad mood on Monday, and the rest of the week gets better, better, better. So Mondays for me are my admin day. If I'm going to have an admin day, I do it then just because I'm not in the mood. I'm tired or I'm just irritable.

But Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Thursdays are very heavy, just referral partner meetings. Obviously, the seasons of events change throughout the year. So right now, there's not a lot of events going on. And if they are, they're very casual.

But I am very lucky that I have technology neurology at my firm that helps me save time from an administrative standpoint. If you are a BD and you don't have a legitimately good CRM, then I don't know how you're going to survive. You have to have something. But I plan my week based on different seasons.

So if you had asked me two weeks ago, I would have told you I'm in a rut. I'm stuck. I really don't know what to do. I'm pretty sure I actually texted you being like, What do you do when you're in a rut?

It's like you call your friends and listen to punk rock music. Yeah, that's it. And so I did that with my metal music. But But I was waiting on some internal news from a reach out standpoint because I'm waiting to see if we hired a big deal tax person to start in the Dallas office.

That's something that I could offer everything with Atlanta and Denver, but I didn't have a tax person in Dallas to lead. So I was just in limbo saying, I have a game plan based on this news. I found the news. It's good.

They're going to start. And so now my reach out for the week is going to be based around, Hey, this new person is going to be starting July eighth. Would love to get on your calendar so you can meet them.

Neil Barrow: So balancing some of those internal things that you have to do to do your job better. But also you're focused on structuring your administration days. I do the same where it's Mondays and Fridays. I typically are in office.

I'm doing admin, I'm doing work. And then Tuesday through Thursday, I've got all my meetings that are external. And so I love that rhythm. And then you're so focused on managing as many referral relationships and conversations as you can every week.

Emily Ackerman: And the thing, too, to be successful is these people end up becoming your friends. But I think the way to stay, and what I would tell any BD that I ever see is There's different layers of referral partners. The nucleus, like a DNA, the bread and butter, the ones that send you everything, your primaries. You have to see these people at least once a quarter or every two quarters, and one-on-one, not just at an event.

You have to see them one-on-one. I think there's another level two of people that you would like to do more work with, but you're not in quite yet. And you have to see those people at least once every quarter or two quarters. And you have to base it around things that are actually in real time for them.

So with this new tax person starting, I need to get in front of every wealth advisor. I need to get in front of every attorney. And there are other even just CFO groups for example, that I need to get her in front of. It is the thing where I really want it to be a focused thing and not just a, Hey, I hope this email finds you well.

Let's catch up soon.

Neil Barrow: Yes, that's what we want to avoid. We want to make it value add and have an intention and an agenda behind our focus of our activity. And so when you're having these conversations with referral sources, how do you make it intentional to help with the connections and the introductions? How do you move these along from, We met, we met a couple of times, now there's introductions, or I know that I don't need to necessarily meet with this person many more times.

Is there maybe one highlight or a tip that you could give in having these referral relationship conversations?

Emily Ackerman: I really get a feeling just right away. It's just a gut feeling with these people.

Neil Barrow: It comes down to going back to a lot of your stuff. It's who you like.

Emily Ackerman: It's who you like. Yeah. Again, I'm pretty easy to please. If I can get you to open up, I'm not asking you to be vulnerable and talk about your most embarrassing moment or your kink.

I'm not asking things that are off color. But if I have any hook where we have anything in common, I like some weird things besides travel and fitness, if I meet anyone, for example, that likes the music I listen to, I'm on my own little island of loving Tool and metal, our poor stuff. When I meet other people that are like me in our world that appear normal, that also say, I love a perfect circle. It's like, Really?

Oh, my God. And it's just like you're dating. Some people are worth settling down with, and some people are just great to have in your orbit. Yeah.

Neil Barrow: No, absolutely. I think you've highlighted the main thing, which is you're going to build all of these relationships, but you've got to distill down the number that you actually want to nurture that are going to be helpful business-wise, that you like as a friend, that you have common interest with, that you want to spend time with.

Emily Ackerman: And the people that are… It's not a one-sided thing, too. You have to have people that also care about you. Sure.

And it's both. It has to be. And so they're just really good There's a lot of people out there that when they have an actual deal, I'll get a call. But it's all timing, and it's just being top of mind in front of these people and being a good person.

But I think the success in BD also comes from you have to like what you're doing, but you really have to like who you work with. And one thing that I've had in my cap that I can't speak for everyone else in BD is I've had awesome bosses. Even now, I have an awesome boss, but it all comes down to the stage of life you're in. I don't need to be micromanaged.

I actually really know what I'm doing. If you try If I have pigeon hole me, that's when I get-Trying to make you cold call. Yes. Or just hovering too much.

Neil Barrow: No, understood. Okay, so this has been great, Emily. Thank you for sharing your wisdom around business development and your personal approach to it. If you could…

Someone starting new in BD, someone that's a veteran, someone that's in leadership in business development, do you have any final thoughts around your maybe personal business development philosophy or an approach to business development that would be helpful for people?

Emily Ackerman: I think you have to learn and be delicate with it, but I am so authentically me, and it's very much a take it as you wish. I curse. I talk about religion. I talk about politics.

I am authentically me that will corporately not get a hand slap. And so a lot of people are just super buttoned up and stiff, and that's just not going to get anywhere. I think whether you are seasoned, you know this, or if you're brand new, you'll learn this, but you just got to be you in a way that won't get you fired. No, it just be you, be authentic, be genuine, give a crap.

And just the people that are the most successful, it takes a village. You don't need to be on your own island. If you're in a situation where it's just not good for you and you don't believe in the product anymore, leave. You need to do what's best for you.

I think a lot of BDs, whether you're seasoned or new, get very stuck in situations where even with CBS, I realized probably in that last little leg, even before the acquisition, streaming was just becoming a thing. I wasn't believing in my product anymore because I didn't want commercials with my radio. And so it became hard for me to sell. And that's when I also, even before the merger, I knew it was my time.

And so even with the startup that I moved to, I realized I want a bigger company, and I'm not going to make it here if I don't have a successful team behind me and just structure. I need that. Even with the The car rigs one, it's like, I love the people and I like what I'm doing, but I can do more. And you jump.

Right now, I'm in a good spot. And I have a really long runway where I've got a path for growth from my title, money. And we're I'm growing and I'm with a bunch of people that have a fire under their booty like me. They're young.

A lot of people in my Dallas office are not retiring anytime soon. I've got a really long runway. The only thing that would be scary is if we were cobbled up by a BDO or something like that.

Neil Barrow: Which is happening in the market.

Emily Ackerman: Yes. Everyone's got a price, but at least internally, I'm at peace of mind knowing that we are not getting acquired. We have no plans to do this anytime soon. If anything, we're trying to get to top 50, organically and just through growth.

And I'm happy to be a part of that mix.

Neil Barrow: That's awesome. And I think what you've highlighted, which thank you for sharing, is integrating your personality into your professional community. To. You have to do that.

So thank you, Emily.