Building a Legendary 30-Year BD Reputation

Tony Banks: I was literally a man standing out in front of a Waffle House in Atlanta, GA at a pay phone at the Waffle House calling this lady and she picked up. I said I know so and so I hear you're the person for the Atlanta Olympics. She says that's that's very nice of you. I'm not the person but here is the right person.

3 calls later I finally get to the right person and we did a like $1,000,000 project for the Atlanta Olympics because I knew someone that knew someone that knew someone. It's about relationships. Man, if that doesn't highlight BD,

Neil Barrow: I'm Neil Barrow. I'm your host. I'm the founder of EnabledBD and UndergroundBD Community. Today, I'm joined with Tony Banks, the Director of Private equity Services at RSM.

Welcome, Tony. Thanks for joining me.

Tony Banks: Thanks Neil. Glad to be here.

Neil Barrow: Man, So you've got a big reputation among the private equity community like you're very well respected. I've respected you from afar from a long time and how you've approached building your network and a professionalism that you've shown throughout just me seeing you and leadership roles and stuff. But and so I'm really curious to have this conversation around how you get started in business development and sales. So tell me, how did you get started in this role?

Tony Banks: Yeah. But Neil, thanks so much. It's very kind of you to say those words. I appreciate you.

And you have the same reputation out there as well. So I kind of steal different things from other people to build my own brand. So you've done a great job.

Neil Barrow: That's exactly right. Thank you.

Tony Banks: Yeah. So I get asked that a lot. How did I get started? And I did not have a linear path like some folks do out there.

You know, I grew up in Colorado, I went to school out there and when I graduated, I couldn't find a job. And a friend of mine owned a manufacturing company in Denver. And he said, hey, I'll, I'll, I'll hire you to be a sales guy. I mean, what do I do?

I had no idea what to do. And so he just kind of coached me a little bit and I had a mentor internally, but literally I would go out and find clients for this manufacturer just cold calling a little bit, you know, wouldn't have email back then. I'm that old. So it was a little bit of cold calling, a little bit of going to lunches and coffees and that kind of thing, trying to meet the right people who were the buyers of the service and for this product.

So I did that for a number of years, was a sales manager there for a while. And just one thing I want to add to this, just by chance, I'll tell you a funny story while we're here is that one of the clients that we were trying to recruit were the 1996 Atlanta Olympic Games. And so I was in Atlanta meeting with an architect about something. And I asked her, do you know anyone at the Atlanta Olympic Committee that we can reach out to?

She was, I do know someone. Yeah. Yeah. It's about relationships, right?

She's, I do know someone. You need to call this person. She'll get you in the right direction. So I was literally a man standing out in front of a Waffle House in Atlanta, GA.

And this is how old I am. Again, no cell phone, but I had like $10 and quarters at a pay phone at the Waffle House calling this lady and she picked up. I said, I know so and so. She's a friend.

I've done some work with her in the past. I hear you're the person for the Atlanta Olympics. She says that's that's very nice of you. I'm not the person, but here is the right person.

So literally, I mean like 3 calls later I finally get to the right person and we did a like $1,000,000 project for the Atlanta Olympics because I knew someone that knew someone that knew someone. It's about relationships. Man, if that doesn't highlight BD exactly, that's awesome. Yeah, exactly.

Story Yes, I worked for that company for a while and then a buddy of mine I grew up with, he worked in New York. He worked for Goldman Sachs and he had all the credentials. You know, he had a, he had an MBA, he had a law degree, super smart guy. And he says, you know, you should come work for Goldman like men.

How am I going to come to work for Goldman? I have an undergrad, not in finance, just business administration. There's no way they're going to hire me. Says, well, they're looking to hire and more experienced folks and they'll just train you in whatever service line you're going to go and work for.

And because I'll get you an interview and I said there's no way. He goes send me a send your resume, I'll get you an interview. So I send him my resume via fax because I'm old. Yeah.

So I send him the resume and a couple weeks goes by, I don't hear anything from him. Then he calls me. He says, hey, man, I couldn't get you an interview with Goldman, but I got you an interview with a company in downtown Denver. They're an investment firm.

They want to talk to you about being a marketing guy. I'm like, what does that mean? What do I do? You know, he says, well, we're looking for someone that can be out in the market and be the face of the firm in the marketplace and connect them with prospective investors.

I'm like, I don't know how to do that. And he said, well, you know how to build relationships, right? You know how to build rapport, You know how to follow up, You know how to be the face of the firm in the marketplace. You can do all that, right?

I'm like, yeah, I can do all that. I do that in my sleep, right? Because that's what they want. They don't want a finance guy.

They want someone to connect them in the marketplace. I'm like, come on, dude. So, so anyway, he goes, you got to wear a suit. I never, I never wore suits in my old job.

So I had to go, you know, put a suit on and go downtown Denver and meet this owner, this investment firm in a stuffy high rise downtown. So I go down there and the people are like incredibly nice. I was intimidated, right? I have a suit on.

This is like really polished, you know, like white shoe, really like crisp, you know, old fashioned finance financial firm. And I sit down, I meet with the people, the owners are awesome, the partners were great. And it's like, what do you guys want me to do? They said, we want someone to be out and be the face of the firm in the marketplace, build relationships, follow up, help us get connected to the right people in the market, you know, referral sources, wealthy families, small institutions, that kind of thing that are investing money.

And so I was like, well, I can do that all day, you know, do I have to have a finance background? And he goes, we can teach you that. Yeah. Like, OK, great.

So really they just wanted me to connect them to folks in the market. And they hired me. I just blown away, you know? So I ended up working with this firm for 10 years downtown Denver.

Really good experience, but I really found out how important relationships are.

Neil Barrow: Well, I think you've again, you've highlighted if you have a strong network, if you're able to build that rapport and build relationships with folks and that led to your next job opportunity, your next step, right. And I think that's an important piece of business development. And what we're doing is building strong relationships with folks to find opportunities, whether that's personally, professionally for our firms, whatever that looks like. I think that's a really good story about that.

So you were there 10 years. And I think what you've highlighted is some things that firms are thinking about when they think of hiring for business development. They want somebody to be the face of the firm. They want somebody to be in market.

They want somebody to connect them with the right people. But they don't necessarily know what a job description or how to go do that looks like. So they hire a person to go figure that out and do it for them. So you know, when you think about that ambiguity of business development, how firms view business development, it's really that connector and face of the firm.

Man if just man, if we, if people, more people knew about us, we'd just be swimming and work. That's not necessarily the case. So what did you learn over 10 years about what is business development for financial services? How did you go about your job?

I'm sure it changed and evolved over time over those 10 years, but like what did you thinking about when you first started? What were you doing?

Tony Banks: Yeah. So that's a really good question. I was asking the partners here, you know, what am I selling? And they scolded me.

We don't sell. We're.

Neil Barrow: Not selling anything. We're not selling a thing, you know,

Tony Banks: we're, we're, we're, we're building rapport. We're, we're, we're, we're consultative relate. We relationship, excuse me, we build relationships through consulting. So we ask a lot of questions.

Well.

Neil Barrow: So do you think that's the right mindset for firms is like, hey, we don't sell anything like being averse to the selling word. Do you think that's a good thing or bad thing like?

Tony Banks: I think it's a little both because are selling, but it's a consultative type process. So it's not an aggressive sales process. It's more or less, you know, you find the person that's a perspective buyer of your services and you're asking a lot of questions. How can we be of service to you?

What kind of challenges are you having in the market? What's keeping you up at night? Everyone's heard that before. I mean that, but that's serious.

You know, what concerns do you have about your business? You know, are you, are you, are you having problems with you on the insurance side? Are you having problems on the accounting side, problems with the legal side? Wherever that might be, there's going to be something that's keeping that person up at night, right?

They don't feel confident that their team can handle or they can't handle themselves. How can you make that person the buyer? How can you make them feel good about themselves when they go to work, right? How can you, because you're, you're representing them, right?

They hired you for a service and you can't go in there and mess it up, right? So how are you going to make that person look good, right? That's that's a huge goal that I have in my mind is how can I make this person feel good about not just myself, but themselves and their firm and our firm.

Neil Barrow: Yeah. And I think you hit on it, which you said consultative selling, right? It's about understanding that person's professional goals, their firm's goals and how do you make them look good by engaging with you and your firm. I think that's great.

OK. So you're out there building relationships in the Denver market or were you going about that full fully like external like you were out there just developing relationships and bring the team in as needed? Or was there some internal components on working with the team on plans and their books of business and stuff like that or did that develop? But tell me a little bit about your internal responsibilities and external responsibilities.

Tony Banks: Yeah. So that's another really good point. The those two items are super important to your success, internal and external. For me internally at that investment firm was it was started by three people that worked at a Trust Bank in Denver.

So they were managing wealth for high net worth families. They broke up on their own and so they were leveraging their network to build, you know, their book of business and they belong to country clubs and other clubs that they really had a really good network that way. But they never had time to really, you know, go out there and kind of, I'll say mine that network to stay in front of that network because they were busy managing clients in managing investment strategies, you know, for folks. So that's where I came in is I would find out a list of names that they had.

Oh, I know this person. I used to work with them at the bank. You know, unfortunately their, their father passed away, but left them a lot of money, You know, could you set up a meeting for us? Yes, I'll do that.

And I would set up a meeting and I would be the one that would always follow up and have conversations with that person until we could get them in to have a conversation with us. So I was leveraging their network because they didn't have time to get out there and visit with the folks that they already knew or the centers of influence that they already knew, right. So I was just trying to get out there and just be the reconnector, the folks that they already knew internally, right? But when it comes to external, I was finding great centers of influence through lawyers and bankers, investment bankers, folks that kind of had influence on, on assets that people would be wanting to change hands.

Neil Barrow: Yeah. And so I think you bring up a really interesting point around the internal piece where, you know, our professionals at these firms are practitioners, They have day jobs. And so some of this business development activity, the follow up, the nurturing of relationships, sometimes that can get dropped. And so having Someone Like You to help, OK, focus us, here's the relationships that we need to nurture.

How can Tony help be the right connector to help us maintain these relationships or deep in these relationships or go generate a conversation that we need to have. And so I think that's a really important point. But then when you're talking about externally, you're talking about centers of influence mainly. Did you do any cold calling while you're at the investment firm from your days in the sale, manufacturing, sales?

Tony Banks: Very limited when it came to cold calls really because that was not their mandate that they did not want me to relate a cold call. I would cold call on a few smaller institutions like smaller nonprofits and foundations because they had an investment committee and they were kind of used to inbound calls like that. But for me in general, they really wanted me to stay away from the cold calling.

Neil Barrow: OK. So you're truly then centered around your activity is based on referral sources and nurturing that kind of COI network and relationships development.

Tony Banks: Yeah, that would that role really was focused more on COIs or direct yeah to to folks.

Neil Barrow: And so how did you know where to focus your time early on? Because I know that we can get spread thin when we're in business development, a lot of events, a lot of associations, there's a lot of networking, there's a lot of stuff that you could be doing. So how did you think about focusing your time on the best use of your time?

Tony Banks: Yeah. So for that role, I spent a lot of time with foundations because of foundations. Those are places where that there are families of wealth that are associated with foundations because they're they're they're benefactors and donors, you know, to those different foundations. So I spent a lot of time with nonprofits.

At one point I belonged to like 5 different nonprofit boards. I was the youngest person there always because that was a long ago, a long time ago, but I was always the youngest. So I always needed someone young and I was that person, you know, so I'd be on these different boards with these really, you know, high net worth people or executives of companies that I was hoping to be, you know, able to get in front of them for maybe our services at times. But that's why I worked a lot with that.

Those centers of influence were foundations primarily.

Neil Barrow: So you probably in learning the firm and learning who they serve best and learning where their business came from, then you found, OK, well if I serve on these boards and foundations that have these people on there, I can do that. So how did I mean how did you get on a board like how do you do that?

Tony Banks: Yeah. So I got really lucky in my whole kind of networking process. I joined Leadership Denver. It's like Leadership Dallas.

I joined Leadership Denver. I was chosen for Leadership Denver. It was some crazy application process. 3 or 400 people for 25 spots.

Yeah, it was pretty crazy. I just got really lucky. I knew someone in there and they recommended me and yeah, relationships on the deal, right? And so I got on leadership Denver and that's How I Met everyone really was through leadership Denver.

And after that my whole world changed when it came to, you know, my brand and my awareness in the market. You know, folks going to know who our firm was. I'm getting to know me and all and I'm still friends with people from back in the day. This is a back in 2001 I think it was, you know, when I did that.

So I still know folks from that experience.

Neil Barrow: That's awesome. And like I think, I think you highlight a key point is for business development, if we're going to join something, we need to commit and we need to try to get to leadership positions, right. So when you're in that position and raising your hand for board service, you join like, hey, leadership Denver is a great opportunity for me to meet the right people and get connected and to continue to build right relationships that led to other opportunities. And then you probably raised your hand and said, hey, I'm willing to serve.

That's awesome. Yeah, that's a great tip. So thinking about your time in business development for this investment firm in Denver, what were some of the like We've already talked about a couple of great things, but is there one particular thing that we didn't talk about that served you well or that you learned during that time on how to be an effective business developer for this firm?

Tony Banks: Yeah, that's a really good question. You know, I, I think for me, I needed to find where I was adding value and I wasn't an investment person, so I wasn't going to be able to add value that way, you know, but I was a relationship person and that was my superpower. What was all about relationships, as we talked about already, and I really enjoyed connecting people. So I really leveraged that versus trying to be someone I wasn't right, because I was not the investment genius.

But I could go out there and talk to you about whatever it was being would be relationship wise to learn about what your goals are and your objectives are when it came to your finances and all. So I think that leveraging my superpower, focusing on what I was good at versus what I wasn't good at, you know, like a lot of folks would say, you know, gosh, I'm not a lawyer, I'm not an accountant or I'm not an investment genius. Yeah, but you're a relationship person, you know, really leverage that skill set to really stand out and add value to your, your firm to yourself.

Neil Barrow: And I think that's an important point that we've talked about quite a bit on the podcast when we think about relationships and it's really being authentic to yourself and knowing what your strengths are and leaning into those things and then creating value. And so we hear this term a lot add value. What are some specific? Do you have a specific example on what you feel like it means to add value to people?

Because that term gets floated out a lot and I don't think anybody knows actually what that means. So how did you add value to your network?

Tony Banks: Yeah, so I think I was focused on something I learned from a mentor of mine. He encouraged me to try to find a way to help others. It's like being out there and trying to find out what you know, what kind of client is Neil looking for? And try to find a connection for Neil and don't worry about yourself as much.

Like the biggest hurdle barrier sometimes to BD folks is that you're looking for their next transaction, right? Instead of looking to find out how you can help others. And believe it or not, once you reach that point where you feel like you can go out and help others, you overnight, it's going to change for you. And that changed for me overnight was if I met a lawyer, I might try to find a banker to introduce that lawyer to.

All right. If I, if I met an insurance person, I might try to find an accountant to introduce that person to, you know, that kind of thing. And it seemed to work really well because then folks would remember who I was when an opportunity came around. They would thank me for the opportunity that you know of introducing someone that could use their services, right?

I didn't, I didn't get Commission off of that because they worked outside of my company, right? But man, I got a lot of great street cred and great awareness and I actually felt good doing it.

Neil Barrow: Yeah. And I think that's a key feature for business development is can I connect two people that could do business together. And it's not about, that's how we can add value is being that connector for folks and being a thoughtful connector, right, with what they're looking for and understanding what they're trying to do. Because when you look at lawyers, accounting, insurance, some of the folks that you've mentioned, industries that you've mentioned, they're all trying to grow their book too.

And they want to meet really good people. And if you can be that kind of gravitational pull for people or you're getting people in your orbit connected together, that's a, that's probably the number one way to add value as a business developer.

Neil Barrow: I love that. So you spent 10 years at this investment firm? What was your next step? What was?

What kind of led to the next thing for you?

Tony Banks: Yeah. So that same friend I told you about that got me the job at that investment firm. He worked at Goldman still and then went back to the Goldman well and it goes, I got you teed up this time. They want they want to talk to you should come out and talk to Goldman about a role here.

So I did that. And this is the crazy thing about Goldman is that their hiring process is lengthy. I had like 23 interviews before I got hired in person. Yeah.

Yeah. And the record at the time was like 27. I had 23. And I heard that record got broken recently at like 31.

Oh my gosh. Yeah. That's that's just what they did, you know, and I didn't have an MBA. It wasn't really a finance background, but they had my relationship skill set and they hired me and they wanted me to work in Dallas because Dallas covered the Denver market.

So that's how I got to Dallas was through Goldman. I worked at Goldman for three years. The thing of Goldman for me was I think I was really in the in the in the wrong division. I was in a private wealth division here at Goldman and I worked primarily at my Old Firm with small institutions.

And it's kind of like night and day when it comes to investment services. There's private wealth and institutional asset management. And I didn't realize it at the time. I was just, you know, eyes, you know, big about going to Goldman was that my success came on the institutional side, not the private wealth side.

And so when you come into an environment like Dallas or any other city actually where you're not from, it's like, you know, I didn't belong to the Country Club and I wasn't, I wasn't an Aggie, I wasn't a UT person, I wasn't an SMU person. I was really an outsider. Not that was negative, but you know, when you're dealing with someone's private wealth, you know, it's, it's, you have to have that kind of relationship with them where they're comfortable with you, not just your firm, but with you as a person, individual and your pedigree, so to speak.

Neil Barrow: Yeah. And I think I think you highlight another thing is like what is our past and our experience and our skill set given us the ability to open what doors or crack what doors open. And so it's hard to translate sometimes when you've been working in a particular subsection and industry and all your connections are really there to then go into a different industry and kind of have the same kind of ramp up success that you would see. And so and so you're in a new market, working in a really different industry sent financial services, but different, right, different audience.

Tony Banks: Different culture, very different culture.

Neil Barrow: OK. So how did, so this might be an interesting question is how did, how did business development just overall how was it viewed? What changed from the viewpoint of how your investment firm in Denver viewed business development in your role versus going into a large organization like Goldman? Like how did those expectations shift or what was their viewpoint on business development?

Tony Banks: Yeah, it was. It was definitely the opposite of my Old Firm, much more aggressive as far as being out there in the market. We cold called a lot, We cold emailed a lot. We sent out cold letters to folks.

It was really a much more aggressive, proactive role at Goldman. And on top of it, I had to know the investment stuff as well, which was fortunate that I had the Goldman training. I was in New York for maybe it's like 6 months training for Goldman for this role. It was a great experience.

You know, I built my network of Goldman folks that way, which was awesome. But I learned a lot that I did not know before about the investment world. And so I was, you know, trying to combine the relationship side of being out in the market, being the face of the firm in the marketplace with this investment knowledge that I was given through that training was really changed my trajectory when it came to came to work.

Neil Barrow: And So what about that kind of new rhythm, you know, because you were there for three years and So what about that new rhythm where you're having to integrate probably more cold calling, more cold outreach as well as doing the relationship building and trying to be the face of the market as well. I'm sure there was a lot of metrics associated with it. Was it managed? Like did you have people looking at how many cold calls and activities that you were doing?

Was it a little bit more metric driven?

Tony Banks: Managed. Yeah, it was metric driven more by assets under management. Oh, I see versus, you know, the number of calls that you would make, but you could kind of associate the number of outreaches that you had to your AUM and it's, you know, it takes a while. I would talk to someone at my Goldman job and it said sounds like a great deal.

I might sell my company in a couple of years, but I need you to Sign up today, right? Yeah. I need $5 million today, you know, because back then that was the minimum, you know, so back in 2006, you know, it was like, I need you to sign. I need you to sign this today and, and transfer $5,000,000.

I wouldn't say that sure, but you know, it takes a couple of years. That's what you were thinking. Yeah, it takes a couple of years to get people going on this. And I just met them for the first time.

They've heard of Goldman, but they didn't know who I was, but they didn't know who my team was that I worked with, you know. So that was a little bit challenging because the runway is was much longer than my old job. My old job was more like just being out in the market. This was being a lot more proactive and trying to get people to sign on the dotted line as soon as possible.

You know, that was the biggest challenge there. And then the culture was different for me. That wasn't like the team culture that I came from each job I'd had, you know, it was my third job. I'd always been on a, on a team and we worked together And the Goldman culture was not like that.

It was just kind of, you know, every person for themselves type thing. And more senior teams would sometimes come down and try to claim, make claim to your business, which is I found very difficult, very challenging. It just wasn't my personality. And I'm more of a team like a true team player.

I like that. I like the collaboration. I like going to market together and it just wasn't the place for me.

Neil Barrow: And so you learned a little bit about yourself and how you wanted your work and culture to be right as part of business development. So taking that new learning and I'm sure then you were looking at what your next, how to get what you need out of work. And So what did that look like? What was the next step there?

Tony Banks: The next step is that's when I got into working for an accounting firm. It was back. You know, the financial crisis had just kind of ended and things are going weren't that great. And so I was just looking for another opportunity.

And a friend of mine from Leadership Denver called me and said that our office in Dallas is looking for a business development person. And would you be interested? And they really are focused on private equity and investment banks. And so I worked with a lot of investment banks and private equity firms when I was at Goldman.

So that just kind of worked out. And so I went to go talk to them. What do you guys want me to do? I kept asking that question.

Do you want me to sell? No, we don't want you to sell. OK, What do you want me to do? We want you to be the face of the firm in the market, wave the flag and just kind of get us introduced to folks.

Make sure that you help us enhance our awareness in the market. Oh, I can do that all day long. You know, we want you to join ACG and they did a lot of oil and gas work. We want you to get involved with some oil and gas attorneys, things like that.

Oh God, I mean, I've done that my whole career, you know, so it was easy for an easy transition for me from my Goldman job into this job. I'm working for the small regional accounting firm.

Neil Barrow: OK. So you went into accounting, which I know well, and I think that's where maybe we first met was there when you were in that role. So having built those relationships over 10 years at an investment firm in Denver and then moving into the Dallas market and having obviously developed your network in the Goldman arena, now it's transitioning into an accounting firm to build relationships there. What were some of the things that you started doing immediately that you knew were going to return on your time?

Like because I think that's the hardest part when starting a new role within a firm is knowing where to spend your time. So what did you just start hitting the ground running based on your experience?

Tony Banks: So I sat down internally with the partners and we're asking the question, how do we find new opportunities?

Neil Barrow: It's a great tip that I don't think a lot of people take on. They just start doing activity so aligning with the partners and where they're already finding success.

Tony Banks: Exactly And also where they think they might find success and they haven't tried before, right. Just kind of getting input and feedback from them was super helpful because they all started at large firms. Then he broke out, started the smaller firm and it was a must say smaller firm was probably $500 million in revenue and they had eight offices, something like that. You know, so wasn't like a giant, you know, Big Four RSM firm, but you know, sizable for this region.

So they already had a network. They just weren't out there, you know, making it happen because they have to manage staff, they have to manage clients, they have to manage tax returns, they have to manage work papers, all the things that accountants do, right. So, you know, having someone like me and I was the very first business development person in the Dallas market for them. They've been in business in, in Dallas for like 20 years, had never had a business development person.

So I came in as the first one.

Neil Barrow: So I'm sure the first part was meeting with those partners, but then probably helping them understand how to utilize you. I think that's another point as well.

Tony Banks: Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I remember. I've been there for maybe 4-5, six months.

I can't remember exactly. And my boss came in. He's a managing partner, an incredible guy. He was, he was, you know, great with clients, great with people.

You know, as an, as an accountant, he had some very strong people skills, which I'm not saying accountant don't have, but sometimes they don't, you know, they're just really good practitioners. He had both. So he came to me and he said, hey, how you doing? I'm doing great.

He goes, OK. Are you getting out there? Yeah, so it's OK. We want to make sure that you're getting out there, you know, So that was his little clue to me.

Like they want me out there. Yeah. So, you know, I was going, you know, lunches and breakfast meetings and coffee meetings, talking to COIs, talking direct to CFOs of companies. I joined ACG at that time, which is probably about maybe 2009, eight or nine, I think when I first got heavily involved with ACG where you and I met and I just started taking on roles, you know, in time they came up and said, hey, do we need to volunteer for this?

I'd raise my hand, you know, because I just wanted to, you know, get exposure in the market and let everyone know, you know, about the firm I was working with and working for. And so that seemed to work out really well. The COIs that I knew before. I use the same strategy I used in Denver, you know, when I moved to Dallas with Goldman trying to meet COIs and I met some, you know, good bankers and some really good law firms, some good private equity folks and investment banks.

So I just kind of leverage that I'm over here. If you ever seen anything or hear of anything where some folks need to transition to a new accounting firm, you know, please let us know. It was never a hard sell and but how can I help you? That's where I think I was really adding value to that relationship.

And I would find a way to add value and I'd get folks connected. So I became this connector, you know, and building that kind of reputation, you know, if you can help someone find a deal, you know, it really helps your brand.

Neil Barrow: Absolutely. And I think being at an accounting firm, we have access to great relationships, right? And it's kind of built in. And so how can we leverage our own personal relationships and our firm relationships to connect people?

And I think, I think you're spot on with being a connector and, and how do we focus our attention and business development around giving and making intentional connections And working for someone else is part of our job. Like we got to work for our referral sources and our COIs and the people in our network. And so you joined ACG, you started raising your hand. You got really involved there.

Tell me about your trajectory at this accounting firm and what did that look like growth for you and the Dallas market?

Tony Banks: Yeah. So you know, with business development, it's it's kind of an interesting role. It's not like you're coming into a law firm and you're like a junior, a junior associate or you come into an accounting firm and you're an associate and you have this kind of, you know, really planned stair step, stair step, kind of ladder up getting promoted, right? You're, you're the BD person.

And if you're lucky, you come in at a director of VP level. And if you're not, you're like an associate and you're just kind of in a room by yourself until you go out to the market, right. So, you know, it's not one of those deals where you close a giant deal, they're going to make you a partner. It's rare for someone in a BD role to be promoted to a partner principal ownership level of their firm, whether it's, excuse me, it's whether it's a law firm or an accounting firm or whatever insurance firm.

Sometimes in private equity they seem to be on a, on a good roll, a good track when it comes to business development where private equity firms are involved because there I know a number of private equity business development folks that are principles, which is is super exciting some are partners, which is great.

Neil Barrow: Career trajectory for BD. Yeah, that's great.

Tony Banks: But for most professional services, you're the BD person and you're going to be a VP forever or a director forever. You may be able to make it to managing director possibly. But my trajectory was just trying to get out there and, and create as much awareness as possible for our firm. And that worked really well.

It worked really well. I think for me, things changed for me a lot when I started working a lot with ACG. Everyone says you're like the king of ACG and that kind of thing. Well, I raised my hand all the time because that's all I had, you know, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't have an MBA.

I couldn't do anything else really. I wasn't a CPA. So I couldn't do, you know, tax returns and I couldn't do audits for folks. So all I had was the relationship side.

So that's what I always LED with was the relationship stuff. And that seemed to really work out. And ACG seemed to really like that they enjoyed, you know, people that were get involved and, you know, help, you know, the membership or events, you know, the golf tournament, you know, all that stuff. But kind of a, I don't mean this for this to be off topic, but a great story I'll share with you about ACG was and how things really changed for me.

There was, I remember I wasn't getting a ton of traction at first at ACG even playing give to get, I wasn't getting that much traction. What I mean by that, as folks weren't returning my calls or returning my emails as much as I wanted them to, and I would see them at the meetings, but some come up, I couldn't meet them or they ran out early, that kind of thing. Right. And so they asked, oh, they asked the crowd.

We need some volunteers for the next meeting. I didn't know what they wanted me to do, so I raised my hand. Come meet us afterwards and we'll talk to you about what holes we need to fill. OK, great.

So they said, OK, Tony, nice to meet you. We need someone here next month to stamp parking tickets, validations for parking. We had it downtown at the Belo Mansion at the time. I'm like, dude, what did I sign up for?

I don't want to stay. I don't want to stamp parking tickets. I want to meet people, you know, I don't want to stamp stand there and stamp parking validations for people. I was insulted, but I smiled on my face and said, I volunteer.

Sure, I'll do it. I'll be here. So OK, great. Be here at 6:30, you know, so it's on my calendar.

I get there at 6:30, you know, I'm the first one there. And I help them set up and all that building relationships with people. And I start stamping parking tickets. I meant I met everyone because no one wants to pay $10.00 for parking, right?

I met everyone. I met people that I sent a dozen emails to that never responded. I met them. That totally changed my trajectory at ACG was just doing that kind of menial task of stamping parking tickets and I did it for the rest of the year and people were fighting for that role afterwards.

Neil Barrow: Because. I was doing, yeah.

Tony Banks: I met everyone. Face put a face to the name right in the email.

Neil Barrow: Like starting that relationship, you got to have that face to face so.

Tony Banks: Sorry I didn't get back to you. Yeah, let's get together. Yeah that totally changed my ACG.

Neil Barrow: Trajectory and that's a great mindset shift around how we need to view business development and giving and giving of our time and doing the things that we need to do to get in front of folks like I love that story. And so you continue to climb the networking ladder and the ACG ladder and adding value to your firm. So tell me a little bit about, you know, the end of your tenure at this accounting firm and what did that look like to your next phase?

Tony Banks: Yeah. And I think you made a great point. You're out there in the market and I think folks see you doing good things in the market, right. I remember seeing you out in the market a lot back in the day and I just got, I got called by a bunch of firms over the course of maybe a year.

And I did get called by RSM back then. And then Grant Thornton called me. And so the partner that hired me at Grant Thornton just said, I've seen you out there in the market. We need someone that's proactive in the market.

You know, we have some folks now that aren't very proactive. They're just kind of waiting for the phone to ring. We need someone that's, that's active and involved with associations and, you know, out there just kind of telling the story and making things happen, you know, and during that recruitment process, I was on the golf course with that partner and I hadn't actually committed yet to the Grant Thornton role. And I asked him a question, what is the secret of success for business development?

And he got it. This partner really understood the role. Even though he wasn't an audit partner, he understood the role. And he said, you know, Tony, if you do stuff happens.

And at first I was insulted. I mean, literally, I had a notebook out. I had a little notebook in my pocket. I'm writing down some notes.

And I'm like, that's it. He goes, that's it. It was like so simple and so profound that he's right do stuff and stuff happens, right? Like if you didn't reach out to me, we wouldn't be here today.

That's exactly right. Right. And I know in the past we've connected about things because someone's been proactive, you know, But if you're not proactive in the market, no matter what, it is literally man, it could be your, your job, it could be your marriage or relationship. It could be a friendship, you know, whatever that might be.

It could be, you know, a trip you're taking somewhere. You know, if you're not proactive and doing stuff's not going to happen. You'll be disappointed. If you're waiting for someone to call you know they're not.

It's not going to happen. It's not.

Neil Barrow: And I think you highlight like early on, like it's really about that high motor activity, raising your hand and then you're getting to the certain point where all the stuff that you're doing kind of focuses and now you know where to do those stuff, right. And so it's where you need to be spending your time that's the most valuable. And so you took on this Grant Thornton role and what did that look like? Just how was that any different than the previous roles that you served in at other firms?

Tony Banks: It was a little bit different, much higher profile because it was a bigger firm, a little bit more demanding because it was a bigger firm, a lot more metric driven, but nothing to nothing to new to egregious. You know, it was, it was a good role. It was a good role. I think I Grant Thornton had some changes going on there.

They're getting acquired, you know, by private equity. So the metrics were different and the collaboration was not the way it was before. I really, like I said before, I really enjoyed the collaboration and the collaboration changed.

Neil Barrow: And was that due to private equities involvement in that, did the metrics change and like the viewpoint of business development and the collaboration piece or what you know?

Tony Banks: I think it was a combination of private equity coming in and a drastic change in leadership at the firm kind of at the same time. And I had, you know, like you people were calling me even though I'd been there for, you know, 5-6, seven years. I would, you know, get calls monthly about, you know, making a change to different firms. And RSM had called a couple times, several times.

And they had an opportunity that just came up at the right time for me. And that's that's how I made the change.

Neil Barrow: And so now you're at RSM and so like, tell me a little bit about like again, where's your focus now in this role? What are you continuing to do? What are you trying new? Like is there anything that stands out from with this new role on how you're executing on business development?

Tony Banks: Yeah, this new role has me, I'll say 99% focused on private equity, OK, maybe 95%. My previous role at GT was maybe 5050. I see. But this role is 95% focused on private equity.

So I'm working a lot with the PE firms, not just in Texas, but I also cover Colorado as well. Those are two really good regions for private equity, you know, in the central region, central US, which I cover. So I'm really trying to get close to the PE firms and understanding what their challenges are and how we can help them.

Neil Barrow: And I love that because I think a role like that for an experienced business development person where you're focused on a particular industry, so you can go deep. And you're, you've already built that over your career in private equity and investment banks and in the space through ACG and your leadership roles within ACG. And now it's just if that's 95% of your time that allows you to go deep and just spend your time where you've already found success. And I think that's really cool.

Tony Banks: Yeah, that's right. That's why you mentioned that the ACG relationship that again was just extraordinary for me and I could take a step back into the ACG time was I might have been maybe 20/10/2011. I can't really remember when there was a friend, someone I knew right and his wife called me and she said, do you want to be on the ACG board? I'm like, well, what do I do?

Do I have to write a check or do we have to be a $25,000 sponsor or is it pay to play? I don't really know. And she goes, well, I'm the sponsorship chair right now, and I got to step down. I think you do a good job of that.

OK, what do I have to do? She said, just say yes, OK, I'll do it. I didn't know what I was supposed to do. I had no idea, really.

And I said, what do you want me to do? She says, well, whenever there's an event coming up, just take the list of previous sponsors from last year's event and just call them up, email them, ask them if they're interested again in sponsoring that event. I'm like, that's it. And well, if they don't want to sponsor, just reach out to a firm in their industry and see if they're interested.

That's it. That's it. Like, wow, you know, And so I did that anyway. I was always, I wasn't, I was the outreach guy, right?

I was always reaching out to folks. So that was an easy transition for me. And so I did that for several years, really enjoyed it. Then I was the golf chair, you know, and then I was on the committee for the Texas Capital Connection, which is their biggest event.

It all just between Dallas and Houston in 2026 will be back here in Dallas. And so, you know, now I'm like, this is like the fourth time I've been the chairperson for the Texas Capital Connection. And before I was on the committee, I couldn't even believe I was on the committee. And now I've been the chairperson for four years.

But it's through what we do stuff and stuff happens and help lead and help coach and guide folks that are on your committees, you know, and treat folks like they're professionals and help them. Do you know what folks help you learn to do?

Neil Barrow: Yes, and so I love I love hearing your story being shared around what you've learned and it's really about those relationships and keeping close to them. And so if you could maybe leave us with a thought you've how did, how does Tony Banks think about getting, staying organized with all of your relationships and building relationships? What does that look like for you, like tactically?

Tony Banks: Yeah, I think that's a big challenge for folks in BD is the organization and being strategic and being a tactician when it comes to BDI, think that's where you really take advantage of any kind of modern tools, technology that you have. You know, sure, spreadsheets are great, CRM is great, but it's another thing where, you know, do stuff and stuff happens. You have to be intentional about being organized and strategic. You know, that's really super important.

So I schedule everything. You know, I had a scheduled scheduling call meeting and when, you know, I go to the office three days a week intentionally because I'm a relationship person, sat down with my boss who's the office managing partner, but also the regional private equity partner. So he and I sat down, even if just like for 30 minutes had that conversation. You know, where are we missing the boat or who are we not connecting with in the market?

And so I had my spreadsheet out and I'm just filling in the gaps. You know, we haven't talked to this firm. We talked to these folks. We talked to these folks.

These folks don't like us. How can we get them to like us? Let's do dinner with them, let's golf with them, you know, let's plan an event with them. You know, So it's very tactical and strategic, but very intentional.

That's the most, I think important part in BD is being intentional because, you know, it's not like you got a stack of papers on your desk when you walk in. Here's your inbox. We don't have an inbox like that, You know, accountants, lawyers, others. They have an inbox.

This is the stack of stuff I have to do today, right? For us, it's like we also have to start over every day almost. It seems like that sometimes. Like, what can I do to create opportunity, right?

Because no one's just going to call, you know? Hey, I got a great deal for you. That's rare. I mean, I love it when it happens.

Sure. But it's really rare, right? We have to create opportunity. So in order to create that opportunity, we have to be intentional and focused.

Neil Barrow: And I think so. I think that's a great thought to leave us on is this intentionality in the balance between doing stuff and stuff will happen, but being intentional about the stuff you do and staying organized and collaborating with the people that you're working with internally to make sure that you're aligned on where to spend your time, that's most valuable. Exactly. I love that.

Thank you Tony for joining. This was great. Thank you, glad to be here. Thanks for joining.